City Council - Special Meeting

go ahead and convene the the meeting here this is October 4th or pardon me 14th um Bellingham city council meeting we will convene this um meeting with uh four public hearings uh and then one budget work session uh after that is concluded staff has notified me that we need a a 10-minute break in between the public hearings and the budget s session so we'll take a little break um after that um so I'd like to turn this over to council member Hannah Stone who um has proposed these resolutions and um I will open and close each public hearing but I want to provide coun ststone with um content that she um might want to prepare and and let the public know about thank you very much president Hamill um so this morning as mentioned we have four public hearings um the first is related to agenda bill 24276 so this is a public hearing for a resolution opposing Washington State initiative number 206 six and encouraging the citizens of Bellingham to vote no on the no November 5th 2024 ballot so in accordance with RCW a555 the Bellingham city council will accept public testimony and express a collective decision and or vote upon a resolution expressing opposition to Washington State initiative number 2066 and encouraging the citizens of Bellingham to vote no on the November 5th 2024 ballot this initiative specifically 2066 concerns regulating Energy services including natural G gas and electrification and if passed initiative 2066 would repeal and prohibit certain laws and regulations that

discourage natural gas use and or promote electrification and require certain utilities and local governments to provide natural gas to eligible customers um and so as has been the course I'd like to have the public hearing and then sure and then we can open it up for discussion from counil committee um we're in committee right now so committee further uh questions pursu to this before I open up for the public hearing okay seeing none go ahead and open it up there'll be an opportunity after we have two speakers tonight uh Cynthia Rea and I apologize I see CS so I don't know if that's the the full last name and then Ashley uh bhen Sean okay and just like to remind speakers that the guidelines are up on the on the walls here please adhere to them um don't deviate over the 3 minute um Mark and please refrain from any disorderly speech or conduct or personal attacks just keep it on us please stick to the policy and go ahead speaker Cynthia or Ashley yeah good morning and I want to thank you for your accommodation if you don't mind if I sit I'm a nurse with uh back that's pretty good today but I have paresthesia neuropathy I would also like to thank those this morning before I start I hope and that includes the your mayor you know she doesn't remember me but I remember her and um she came over to me once at event because I said why am I in a republican tent I um uh was standing there and answering her I don't mind saying I have to follow we all do a value system which includes the

Constitution the Bill of Rights and um Messianic I followed the Bible and Tara and she was very like yall are kind of like listening like oh who is this woman so I have to go why I'm sitting here today about these initiative because to me they follow each and every one of the principles in our Constitution and Bill of Rights so on this um Columbus Day observed I also am a member of the VFW and the American Legion and we've been handing a lot of things out for that but it is also inous people day and what I saw in your mayor was this exactly what this little book was I also have a master's degree as a teacher about Pocahontas it said she is a young Native American who played in important role in helping her people and the English set u settlers become friends so I would like to give this to the mayor and then I'm thanking the police this morning they let me park there come find a parking spot and a calendar that has our VFW calendars have flags all on them you can't go to the bank today but here you go here is a beautiful calendar from a local business that has all three of these dates on it wish you accept that thank you so while I'm here I'll start with one because this was the easiest one of me for all because I saw in um the one we're talking about now the natural gas band that for the for the people from Sumas to Everson I'm volunteered I wasn't paid to do anything except my family are hardworking people out in the county my daughter's EMT paramedic 10 years my

grandchildren have three and four jobs restaurant owners there's so much fear and anxiety and people feel their rights are taking away from them that it was so easy the initiative we had to get 565,000 on it to just say Mar Ellis bonwell I took care of her husband as a hospice nurse before he died they have beautiful solar panels but this is saying stop I believe that we can have good clean energy and we can work on that CO2 I am a creation science person so I look at CO2 different but you know what it was feeling forced that they're just so tired and overspent so we're hoping that I'm just going to say that about this one that you can just think that it says stop the natural gas band but it's really giving people choice which is a constitutional right up thank you very much for your attention I'll be back thank you thank you nope good morning council members um thank you so much for letting us speak and having this public hearing I am here to urge you to take no action on the initiatives and specifically 2066 the Insley Administration has already moved in this Direction with the State Building Code Council Banning natural gas and new homes and hb1 1589 pushes Puget Sound enery to force their customers to switch from gas to electric heating here's the issue Washington already has caps on co2 admission the natural gas B doesn't add anything to those efforts it just dictates how reductions happen and forces customers to bear the cost instead of helping us meet environmental

goals the ban eliminates natural gas infrastructure taking away the flexibility future lawmakers might need to adjust emission caps keeping this ban will increase demand for electricity which we already know could lead to energy shortages repealing the ban would lower the cost of home construction and help us meet the future energy needs more effectively and let's not forget HB 1598 lets utility companies raise rates to cover the cost of converting homes from natural gas to electric this puts another burden on families who are already facing Rising bills now consider the impacts on restaurants many local restaurants rely on natural gas for cooking switching to Electric could not only be costly but could also negatively affect their operations restaurants could face increased in expenses from installing new electrical equipment and placing or paying higher utility bills passed on to the customers these are small businesses that are still recovering from the pandemic and many simply can't afford such a hit a forest transition away from natural gas could lead to higher prices for customers and even Force some businesses to close and if initiative 2066 fails we're looking at no more gas hookups in new homes and existing homeowners would be forced to spend anywhere from 40 to $70,000 to convert their electric heating cooking and hot water that's an enormous cost for the families who can't afford it and I'd like to point out this time that the Seattle Times vote they their

editorial board is recommending a vote Yes on initiative 2066 to keep natural gas as an option we can still meet environmental goals without creating Financial strain energy shortages or hurting small businesses like our local restaurants now I'd like to say this is a quote from the Seattle Times reducing greenhouse gas emissions of for more than 1.2 million natural gas customers in Washington will be among the hardest parts of the state's clean energy transformation State lawmakers owe it to its constituents to carefully craft and thoroughly debate legislation so fun fundamental to our lives the way we stay warm bathe cook and stay warm bathe and cook our food earlier this year a slim majority of democratic lawmakers failed to live up to these expectations at a time of Washington's power grid is increasingly under stress they rushed a flawed but wide- ranging Bill giving peton energy the state's largest utility new abilities to assess and request rate hikes to advance electri your time is up all right that's from the Seattle Times and I have a copy of it if you all would like to look thank you thank you all Miss guts there were no other individuals signed up okay that'll conclude the public hearing for this item well close the public hearing and bring it back to council um uh to committee committee go ah um so I was just going to highlight with respect to 2066 um the effect of the proposed measure if approved um so if approved initiative measure 266 would repeal or amend

certain provisions of the decarbonization act and specifically initiative member number 2066 would prohibit psse rate plans that restrict access to gas service and any planning requirements that render gas service cost prohibitive it would allow psse to offer rebates to purchase Natural Gas Appliances um or equipment and psse would not be required to educate customers about the benefits of electrification or the availability of rebates for energy efficient appliances um it would also remove requirements that psse Target certain areas for electrification and coordination with local utilities to further um electrification and so the measure would also require gas utilities and local governments to provide natural gas to customers who demand it even if other Energy Services or energy resources um sources are available and it would further prohibit local governments air pollution control agencies and the State Building Code Council from prohibiting penalizing or discouraging the use of gas um and so part of the struggle right with this initiative here locally is that the priorities that we have passed and implemented um here as a community would be directly impacted by the passage of this initiative um to further those efforts locally and so wanting to also though highlight that consideration of this resolution and if it were to be passed by the council obviously it does not impact I mean the Democratic process at large ensuring that voters still have um you know free choice to

vote on Election Day how they choose um but wanting to I know that sometimes when initiatives come forward there can be some confusion or question by voters about what exactly they're voting for and so I think here it's important for us to be able to speak which it does in the resolution and the whereas recital um about some of the direct right implications for us locally than you counc Stone ccist I think one of the difficulties here is this is a kind of a triple negative we're asking people to vote no on an initiative which says no to things but those things aren't actually NOS on their own there actually is no ban on natural gas and so you can't say no to the ban on natural gas if there is no ban of natural gas and so we're saying no to the no or to the no so it's that's what's confusing um you know for example uh the issue of gas to restaurants I haven't seen any regulations which attempts to stop natural gas restaurants from using natural gas that's usually a clear exception this is the the energy coded regulations have to do with building Heating and Cooling there are viable efficient proven cost effective Alternatives this is different from Banning natural gas in your fireplace for example or for restaurants so again saying no to something that doesn't actually say no to something else is kind of a confusion you don't need to protect your fireplace by voting no because your fireplace is not being threatened um and again part of the the double no thing here um is this

would prohibit uh psse from any plans for transition it would prohibit put a gag order on psse to educate their consumers on viable effective cost effective energy efficient Alternatives so it's a gag order so we're saying no to the no so again that's why it's confusing I don't think there should be a gag order so I think we should say no paradoxically so that no one thinks there's a gag order out there because there isn't um we also have plans to prevent pollution right so we're saying no to pollution but we should say no to pollution and we're saying no to something which says no to plants which say no to pollution again it's a triple negative I think that's why it's confusing so let's reverse it all around saying we're against pollution we're for efficiency we're for flexibility in energy planning and transition and this in no way dictates exactly how that happens and the problem is this initiative would actually cut off the ability for state government to plan it and look at all the options so that's why I say no to the no to the no sorry if that's too confusing committee further questions council member Anderson I'm going to support this resolution um this Council and councils before us have invested a lot of time and energy with the community with our staff and our finances to do the climate plan um the electrification of uh new single family homes uh climate change you know we just have to look at what's happening in Florida um and elsewhere California with all the

fires I mean climate change is real and we need to do everything we can um on an individual level community and state um we don't always have uh as much influence over things at a national level but um and I agree with council member Lilo Quist that you know the triple negative I kept going through um the initiative and there was just information in there that I felt was um not being very responsible or uh transparent to what they were requesting um like the gag order um I want psse to be able to educate the community and and offer incentives for electrification um I know in our in our house as we replace we're natural gas in our house and as we replace our appliances we've been replacing them with electric um no one's saying that I have to go in right now and pull everything out immediately it's just as I go to replace them when they fail um and I I want to make sure that we have um good products out there um I've replaced two appliances so far with electric in the last couple of years so even on a um individual household level we're making that commitment to do what we can for climate so with that um I'm going to um move approval second okay the motion's been made by council member Anderson second by council member Williams further discussion comments remarks questions seeing none all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed extensions recusals motion carry 70 okay we close that public hearing and move to the next item good ahe so the second item is with respect to

agenda Bill 2 4277 this is a public hearing for resolution opposing Washington State initiative number 21109 and encouraging the citizens of Bellingham to vote no on the November 5th 2024 ballot in accordance again with RCW a555 the Bellingham city council will accept public testimony and express a collective decision and or vote on a resolution expressing opposition to Washington State initiative number 21109 and encouraging the citizens of Bellingham to vote no on the November 5th 2024 ballot this initiative concerns taxes and if passed initiative 2109 would repeal an excise tax imposed on the sale and exchange of certain long-term capital assets by individuals who have an annual capital gains of over $250,000 and I'll turn this back to you council member president Hamill for the public hearing uh committee further are any questions or any uh remarks on this one before I open it up okay all right Miss guts all right we have two speakers uh Cynthia and Nancy button okay so much yes so many good helpers here I had a fireman carry my Walker upstairs so in speaking to that initiative I have made thousands and thousands of calls and speaking to wonderful people around the state of Washington and even I bumped into some people because I was your long-term care nurse um for many years when my daughter got sick I actually moved from Florida we're used to those hurricanes and that surge can surge but it didn't so we're thanking uh my people are already out there in Tampa tallah

rescuing people so I am so blessed that my people in Florida will come through that and in Tampa so I am blessed to know that the Lord's still at his hand on Florida because I will say one thing climate does change that said on initiative 2109 a the current tax is 7% on capital gains income 250,000 or more although legislators have already proposed expending the tax to lower incomes and some wage earners the issue research by Washington policy Center I'm using their data that all 49 other states and the IRS treat capital gains as income even though the state supreme court claims it as an excise tax on income from capital gains the court unfairly used this wording um I just believe that too so I guess I have to put that right out there this impact the tax already prompted major employees to fact fact fact leave the state Fisher Investments with 200 billion in managed assets and 180,000 employ employees moved to Texas I did move once to Idaho because of stuff so I don't blame him billionaire Jeff Bezos moved to Miami saving himself six he's doing fine in Miami 600 million to capital gains tax these are these are only the moves that made news but many other entrepreneurs and my friends moved I could tell you where they moved to so the reality and I will let um others speak to that if they're going to speak to that but Washington needs jobs and I am so concerned because my people in Sumas lovely ladies in this room their husbands were out there tractors we need jobs we need

businesses my young uh family members all three of them they were homeschooled they have three sets of jobs each they would love to stay in the states otherwise mine will probably go Barrel race in South Dakota or something and is a Bela she'll probably go cook down in Texas so I'm just saying I mean can we just think about money matters to these people that are trying to survive that want the jobs the companies um I don't see corporations as bad so please just consider um exactly all the nuances of this particular initiative thank you very much thank you speaker thank you very much for the opportunity to speak I actually would like to just address all four initiatives even though I signed up just for this one it's the initiative process that I want to to uh talk about before I do that though I want to say I was quite surprised that this meeting didn't start with the Pledge of Allegiance I would have thought that it would have anyway um I just wanted to say that the initiative process is something that is a blessing that we have in Washington state where the people can come together and state what it is that they would like to see in our governance and i' just like to read um the article one of the Washington State Constitution which just I know you all know this but I just want to say this aloud all political power is inherent in the people and governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed and are established to protect and maintain individual rights

people used their individual right when they signed all of the initiatives and there were more way more signatures than necessary for them to be accepted by the state into law at the time and our legislature could have made all of them law at that time there were so many people who signed that were Democrats independents and Republicans this is not just a partisan issue people want to be able to have the right to say how they want to be governed and this particular one as you know um the one that I'm speaking on right now is an income tax that's been renamed not an income tax and we already have in our in our Constitution that we are decided that we are not going to have an income tax in Washington state I just ask you to listen to the people who have signed these initiatives so um I think you I thank you for your time and hope you'll take my words into consideration thank you thank you speaker that concludes our sign up let's stay under the list on that one okay all right I'll now close the public hearing and bring it back to count or to committee go ahead um thank you president Hamill and thank you to speakers um so just wanting to highlight the effect of the proposed measure again this is initiative number 21109 um if approved this measure would once again repeal the capital gains tax law and Washington state would no longer impose taxes on the sale or exchange of long-term capital assets so this would also eliminate the funding collect collected from the tax that

currently goes to K12 education higher education Early Learning child care and school construction um and so again as we're looking at you know budget um cuts and tight tight times financially wanting to ensure that things that we have you know prioritized and said that are are important that we've heard from our constituents are are important to our community um and require that that support wanting to ensure that those revenue streams at the state level continue um and so again wanting to you know respect obviously the initiative process that's why why this is going to be on the ballot in November is so that members of the community citizens who are registered to vote are able to cast their ballots um and obviously our um declaration through this resolution if passed would not you know prohibit anybody from from casting their vote how they choose but again when initiatives um seem somewhat confusing when on the ballot wanting to ensure that members of the public are clear on what their voting either for or against on Election Day you uh further remarks your comments go ahead yeah I want to respond I want to respond to the issue about the initiative process so each of us up here took an oath to support the Constitution the laws of Washington state and this exactly what we're doing the laws and Constitution say that people can run initiatives and the laws and Constitution allow elected officials to use our voices to contribute to that Democratic process and as council member

Stone indicated the Democratic process is going forward it will be on the ballot and this is part of the democratic process when elected officials Express their views because we're elected to try to embody and express the values of of and the public interest so I I see this as actually supporting the laws and Constitution of Washington state but maybe disagreeing on the particular proposal which is a different issue allog together um this Council actually approved changes to actually make it easier to run local initiatives um a while back I mean is is is you know whether or not we agree with the initiative is different from the initiative process and so this Council as a whole has supported the initiative process even if we haven't agreed with every proposal so I just wanted to kind of put that on the table um interesting that the Washington Washington policy Institute was mentioned on this one because the policy Institute generally favors classical economic arguments with regard to you know what is good policy um but classical economics teaches us that taxes create distortions in the market dead weight loss but that they're far more distorting far worse far more unfair when they uh tax transactions and consumers whereas taxes on wealth are actually less distorting economically so the extent that we need to pay for education and educating our children and I think we do we need to find better ways to do it and taxes on wealth are just better from an economic point of view than

taxes on consumption I don't like paying taxes I don't know anybody does but if we've got to do it let's pick the means which is more fair and less regressive all right thank you for the remarks go ahe cust more cotton as a former PA educator um this initiative scares me and I just want to thank council members sh uh for all your work to bring these four um uh resolutions forward um yeah this is going to strip um uh funding away from kids and families and um I will go ahead and move approval second council member cotton has moved approval and seconded by council member hman further discussion go uh just to to add I think uh council member list really summed it up well this is you know this is a tax on um on I select few folks really that that it affects directly um it's it's a tax on wealth it um benefits our children which is one of the most important um Investments that we can make it's got investing in our children is the best uh the best return that we can possibly ask for when we're talking about investing in our communities so um I will uh I'll be supporting the motion Council Williams before I became a city councilman I was a public school teacher I also worked a lot in the legislature with with the legislature in the past trying to find ways to develop an equitable tax system and uh that uh more or less did things to support the State's responsibilities to fund programs and there is nothing higher than supporting our K12 education system which is what these funds are

used for in the past we have been seen as having a real regressive taxation system and not a very balanced one without think things like you say this is an income tax if it was an income tax it would be applicable to everyone but this particular tax applies to people that have the means to pay it and um and the money is dedicated to go in in part to our education system so um I've seen the way the budget cuts from the State and the the limited resources that are applied to our local school districts from the state and how they are applied and it is not a situation where you can just readjust locally and do all this so based on that I support this vote on the on this initiative thank you counc member CC M Anderson thank you um I do support this uh the capital gains tax just in case somebody is watching and they're thinking well I'm going to sell my business or I'm going to sell my house those things are exempt so if you're a farmer and um you know you're selling the farm if you're selling a home if you're selling a small business um those things are exempt so that's a lot of times more the family wealth what this is really a taxation on is your selling stocks and bonds so you're in the kind of the the market with Wall Street making a lot of money and I'm quoting from the Seattle Times here before the tax passage our state had the most unfair tax code of the nation our poorest washingtonians pay nearly six times as much as their income and state and local taxes as the

wealthiest the capital gains tax has moved us from having the most regressive tax code to the second most it barely moves the needle this is really taxing um the capital gains of the most wealthy the 1% in Washington so um the money is going to our schools uh we need the funding um we're no longer um a lot of our funding in the past was really relied heavily on Timber and we're not making the same amount of money on Timber sales anymore so we need to somehow backfill um Bellingham has always been very fortunate that we have a very generous Community I don't think there is a school bond that has ever not passed there are other areas in the county that don't pass their school bonds and their schools need infrastructure work and you go to some of the poor communities across the state and they even struggle more because they don't have the school bonds that pass and they don't have the economic ability in order to upgrade their schools and so if 1% of our washingtonians who are making millions is getting a small taxation in order to help fund those schools um I think it's people paying their fair share the thought that our income in Washington is a regressive tax that um we have to tax our gasoline we have the property tax we have sales tax on everything other than food thank goodness that passed to drop that taxation um I you know we don't have an income tax like other states if we did then there would be proportional hopefully across the board from who makes the least to who

makes the most people having more equity and fair share towards it so we at a state level have to be a little bit more creative on how we formulate tax systems in order to generate the revenue where we need it the most which currently is funding our education um if we are going to be a nation of the future it really depends on our ability to fairly and equitably educate Our Youth and provide the facility that enhances their experience safety and education and if we don't have good schools we're not going to have a good outcome overall as a state for the future so um I have no issue supporting this and I hope uh voters really do do a deep dive to understand what these initiatives are about and to be honest I kind of wish some of the initiative sponsors might have had for their dishonesty and not filing things correctly with the PDC that maybe there was even a larger fine um but that's a different case no no no public hearing is is closed committee further questions remarks okay committee goes first chair goes last I'll I'll chime in here so I serve as the behavioral health uh chair for the wakam county um um uh incarceration prevention and reduction task force and so and I've served in that role for a number of years now I look at um this through that lens in terms of uh preventing people from entering into our jail system across the street here by the time that uh an 18 or a 20-year-old gets to the sally port uh it's often too late in terms of uh any kind of meaningful

redemption or any kind of meaningful change in that person's life and so I believe uh thoroughly in Upstream prevention and um Intervention when it comes to diverting youth into the first day uh at classes at wam Community College or BTC or Western versus walking into the jail and getting um handed a set of um uh jail close and uh a court date and so um I think that interventions matter and uh the continued intervention in K through 12 is critical and important uh to prevent that system that expensive bloated system from um continuing to operate and so I will be supporting this measure motion's been made by C council member cotton and second my council member Huffman further discussion seeing none all those in favor signify by saying I I oppos exensions recusals motion carries 70 okay move on next one thank you president HL um so the next hearing is agenda bill 24278 so this is a public hearing for resolution opposing Washington State initiative number 2117 and encouraging citizens of Bellingham to vote no on the November 5th 2024 ballot in accordance with RCW a555 the Bellingham city council will accept public testimony and express a collective decision and or vote on a resolution expressing opposition to Washington State initiative number 2117 and encouraging the citizens of Bellingham to vote no on the November 5th 2024 ballot this initiative concerns carbon tax credit trading and if passed initiative 2117 would prohibit state agencies from imposing any type of carbon tax

credit trading and repeal legislation establishing a cap and invest program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions I'll turn it back to you president Hamill for the hearing okay any remarks or uh questions prior to opening up for public uh hearing okay I don't see any we had two individuals signed up uh Cynthia and Joanna shaver okay goad speakers hello once again since I am probably one of the people that I you know I read your comments and I'm just going to say this I'm not trying to personally attack anyone so I really take a front to comment that was just made about the people that should have been taken a deeper dive and looking into these things and so I think we all have a lot of information I'm not sitting here like Nikita kushev you know with my pounding or I'm not derogatorily saying I think these people studied well I think the people with the money and I'm speaking to this now under this initiative they didn't have to I mean I met Brian I'm thinking to these young ladies my daughter's chasing fires today out in Kendall I mean these people have given their time and effort for the little people of the county and as a government uh as a teacher I have a degree I will also say that when I backed you know the stop the hidden gos talks I have an undergraduate in sociology I read stats very well 55 years in RN served the community Departments of Correction everywhere and my daughter who has two college degrees chose because of the Constitution the Bill of Rights creation

science and God to homeschool in this state that is why I am here so I kind of go you know what government schools check your stats where I'm not going to go into that now but I'm talking about these people that were quite articulate and fearful about their energy cost I live in a modular in a trailer place and I will tell you you've got these places here in Washington these um right in Bellingham and they're fearful I mean my husband last night is wrapping I don't know what around the bed cuz it's no matter what we do with the electric heat $400 I wear a sweater coat and so I'm just telling you that with money I used to buy my staff lattes I buy and I'm grateful to go through McDonald's and a142 and up it up for the people in the children's hospital so I don't see with the climate commitment act you have a right to see this climate change commitment act and how you want to curb CO2 but other people can have in this is the United States of America we have government schools I just went out and I'm going to tell you the last thing I was at every school for American as and imp patriotism for our Awards that's where I was I was also at private schools acmy they don't get any money and they're not complaining in government schools these are my friends all around here from all around who care the little people that I'm saying are quite worried about money and taxes they can't afford to live in the state and I'm not denying public education I am a graduate of public education

Sacred Heart University three years as an RN in school but I'm for choice in America I have people that I know that our family from the Hungarian Revolution we helped you know people from totalitarian countries so government schools one thing but I think other people have a choice on that too and on not having this gas tax thank you thank you speaker next speaker thank you so much hello thank you guys so much for taking my time and listening uh my name is Joanna I am a uh born and raised is resident of wam County and a college student at wam Community College and today I'd like to speak on initiative 2117 and encourage you not to oppose this initiative this initiative would repeal the energy tax on co2 emissions in 2021 the legislature pass the climate commitment act otherwise known as the CCA without any scientific or economic analysis the law set arbitrary goals for reducing Co energy emissions Governor Insley said it would only add pennies to the cost of gas yet prices went up by 43 cents uh a gallon uh public records now reveal that the increasing gas prices were always part of the governor's plan once the CCA was in effect Washington's gas prices became the highest in the nation for the first time in history taxing basic travel like getting to work or taking children to school is not like imposing a luxury or sin tax the poor and working families with the least discretionary income in the hardest uh were the hardest hit by this regressive tax cca's hidden gas tax adds

financial burden to families already hit by high inflation farmers were promised that there would be no added tax on fuel for tractors or farm equipment yet they are being hit with a full CCA tax adding more than 150 million to the cost of growing food good climate policy should uh provide incentives to reduce CO2 emissions minimize harmful economic effects and encourage Innovation to increase energy efficiency CCA simply taxes energy use and fails to meet these standards CCA supporters say it red uh it is reducing CO2 emissions but the pro the program at funds doesn't measure whether the expenditures are effective they have admitted that they have no plan to track these opponents of I 2117 say Revenue will be lost for maintaining public uh roads and bridges uh this claim is false revenue from the CO2 tax is legally Ally prohibited from being used to repair uh or fix our crumbling Bridges as a college student I know a lot of people my age and my generation we do care about how much it costs to drive to work every day I'm a full-time student also working full-time and it does affect me so I just hope that you guys will not oppose this thank you so much for your time that concludes our sign up all right then I will go ahead and close the public hearing and uh turn it back to committee go ahead CC member soon thank you president Hamill um so just highlighting again the effect of the proposed measure if approved so if approved initiative measure 2117 would again repeal the

climate commitment act and bar state agencies from implementing carbon tax credit trading programs repealing the climate commitment act would eliminate the climate and air many climate and air quality programs as well as the funding source for investments in climate projects throughout the state um so again looking locally at how you know our climate commitment through our um climate action plan other priorities here locally would be directly impacted by by this initiative thank you comme go ahead yeah I'm gonna I'm G to play The Amateur student of classical economics again because I I think looking at things to an economics land is is it's really uh it's a powerful way of looking at the world I think it's helpful um this is not a gas tax I know that's kind of the focus but it's actually not a gas gas tax it's a credit on carbon emissions trades which is an idea that was proposed as a market solution several decades ago by people who can call themselves conservatives and and supporters of the free market um it sets it uses the market forces and it works with Market signals so that consumers and businesses can actually make what what are called um the best economic decisions and con to call it most efficiency where people actually spend in a way which makes the most sense and one of the ways markets fail is when there's externalization of costs when they're allowed to keep the price low because they're actually Shifting the cost elsewhere so it's being paid for but it's not

being paid for directly by the consumers or by the buyer the solution to that In classical economics is to internalize the costs it's exactly why originally conservatives supported this is because this is a means of internalizing the costs it doesn't make the costs go away it does actually lead to price increases but these are appropriate price increases that actually make the market function because those are real costs that were already occurring now they're occurring in a more transparent way that which allows rational decisions and rational allocations of resources so instead of buying this apparently cheap solution buy this other solution which works just as well or better and now they're competing fairly on that um on that basis so and also what are these funds used for um they're they do add to the cost of of energy and that price has come down but they pay for investments in clean energy they pay for a new energy economy they help fund the new jobs and businesses and careers that are in that new energy economy uh this country has succeeded in part because we haven't Stood Still because we haven't embraced older Technologies but have looked for newer better ways that serve us so I see this as a way of actually investing in a better economy a better energy economy and this is the way we do it and we use it using Market signals so paradoxically I would think of this as a very conservative proposal as a way of working with the market um so I mean I don't consider myself a

full-on you know classical economic conservative far from it but I understand the value of Market forces which is why I understand the value of the Cur current carbon trading system c m Williams you know excuse me as I look at this this one and um as as a council member a duly elected council member I look at our City's organizational values as a guide as as a as a Guiding Light for how we do business here and one of the um things that I've seen and if you you've read the whereas is in in our statement we are totally committed to ensuring a livable future for our residents we are totally commitment uh committed to advancing equity and so forth and see this climate justice issue as something that deals with that we are also committed to do what we can to get to car carbon neutrality by 2050 now that's not saying we're going to get there by tomorrow it's saying over the next 25 years or 26 years that's our goal and if this aligns with our goals and our goals align with this with not with the initiative but the carbon new the uh climate uh commitment act we at at least I feel I'm 100% behind doing the things we have to do to make that real and if this were to pass it it takes away all of that work that's already been done and I certainly am not going to support doing that so I would uh support this um resolution and I'll make a motion to do so okay motion's been made is there a second second motion's been made by council member Williams second by council member cotton further

discussion to this item seeing none all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed extensions recusals motion carry 70 move to the next item thank you president Hamill um so the final hearing is with respect to agenda bill 24279 this is a public hearing for resolution opposing Washington State initiative number 2124 and encouraging the citizens of Bellingham to vote no on the November 5th 2024 ballot in accordance with RCW 4217 a555 the Bellingham city council will accept public testimony and express a collective decision Andor vote upon a resolution expressing opposition to Washington State initiative number 2.

2124 and encouraging the citizens of Bellingham to vote no on the November 5th 2024 ballot the initiative concerns State long-term care insurance and if passed initiative 2124 would provide that employees and self-employed people must elect to keep coverage under RCW .04 could opt out any time and would repeal a law governing an exemption for employees I'll turn it back to you um any questions remarks before we open up the to the public hearing okay I don't see any go ahead Miss guts all right we have two individuals signed up uh Joshua darling and [Music] Cynthia I'll allow that and just reminder to folks to speak to this particular uh agenda Bill item and not to the previous ones that have already been discussed okay I so sorry to interrupt you goe preschoolers I used to say just interrupted so I I'm chastising myself so sorry so um it's been a pleasure the last time I walked up these steps was for the Holocaust memorium and you know we had Rashana maybe you don't and Yan kapor and so um in America that claw that I know very well I lived in Connecticut 50 years I lived in Florida and I've lived in Idaho and here I am because my daughter being sick in Bellingham but that said I am going to tell you why as their nurse man manager in three of your long-term cares for 16 years here after my daughter had multiple problems I was stuck here which is you all have a value system isn't it wonderful in America you can be you know you want to say hardcore go green and you know climate

change I am the opposite because I think there's other good science out there so that's why we have acmis and schools and homeschoolers and Christian schools and seek schools because people can have choice that's what this is about choice you know I worked with the greatest caregivers a lot of them in this room have helped me today who would ever figure that Dr Alim in this town and Dr Steinberg have a 79y old nurse still alive with multiple problems and the biggest one you know what people are out there and I'm going to tell you this right down at your plasma center because I six years ago was getting every infection around so the Wuhan virus did not bother me one single bit at 89 PBS people are giving plasma and that is considered some some for the for their income and I'm a person with the disease that I get plasma it's real expensive so I got a lot of expenses now but these are the people for this that I care about that you give them a choice you give them a choice I've never heard anything like it these young people Carlos you know I went to Carlos's graduation you know in Idaho and I'm for these people I was all around this schools people are just asking they don't want to be forced they're tired of it I don't know you sit here you there are other opinions so I want to thank you for letting me come down here today I want to thank that mayor she's as pretty as ever and I met her daughter I did she was with her that day she looked up at me I'm have not changed my value

system I left is since 1990 so I'm going to leave you um now and I want to thank you and I do appreciate that I live in America because my father was a Merchant Marine sea captain and from these toan tarian countries we had people coming over all over um people that were in countries that what they did to escape was amazing so I thank you I thank you for choice you have every right to vote the way you do but I'm going for it till I go home to see my maker the creator of that CO2 he did trees Lumber just about everything so I leave you with and that's a blessing for you all in the America of today and I'll see how I get this walker down the stairs thanks a lot for letting me come thank you speaker we had one more signed up speaker and then one that requested to speak and I'll I'll be asking your for your name again just to remind the public but U we've got I think fire is going to help with she's a hoot that one yeah our apologies our El elevators out of commission back is it backup okay all maybe she can take the elevator all right go ahead distinguish city council thank you very much for allowing me to speak today I came here intending to speak once on all four topics so unfortunately my name ended up at the bottom of the list rather than the top and what I was hoping to see today is a city council doing its Duty upholding its oath to be impartial what I instead have seen is a city council more than happy to grind its oath under a boot heel true colors have shown today

they're not red white and blue they're a cowardly yellow thank you wish you all good health and have a wonderful day thank you speaker you state your name for the record again Ashley button Shon than so I want to thank you all um for allowing us to speak at public hearing today and listening I do want to point out that everyone who's spoken today is an opposition to you opposing so it it doesn't really feel all the time that council's listen to the people and that frustration is out there um I will speak so to this initiative specifically is is unfair to um mothers and fathers who have to take time and go to their families when they when they're have young ones who cannot continuously work it's unfair to those who leave the state it's unfair for them to have to um continuously pay into something they may not be able to have a benefit to now I will speak to the initiative though however this is just an initiative that gives Choice it does not remove walk haes it just gives people the option to opt out and also for those who opted out who want to opt back in it gives them that option as well so so this one I feel like maybe we can hear each other a little bit more because this is one of of freedom to choose and and we've heard from people who said well I actually opted out and I kind of want to get back in and this gives them that opportunity where they would no longer have that opportunity um the other thing I want to say and I know we've already spoke and you guys have voted

um I just want to invite you to um there we're having a gas station event over by Western and I want to invite you to come listen to the students and hear from them the burden of cost and taxes and and the burden of they want to stay here a lot of them come here they want to stay here the ones who are from here want to stay here it's becoming increasingly hard for the people of wam County to afford to live here and so sometimes we do things all of us with the best intentions but well-intended or not it's not actually what's best for the people and so I'm just inviting you to come and join us on Wednesday from 400 to 6 to come hear from people and hear what they have to say because you I'm sure got people who are in agreement with you who emailed and maybe didn't come today because they have that option as well but I urge you to come here from those people who are struggling every single day to make ends me and they can't afford another tax thank you thank you includes list all right okay um I will close the public hearing and bring it back to committee go ahead um thank you president haml so um again on this initiative just to highlight the effect of the proposed measure um if approved so if adopted initiative measure 2124 um would change how participation in the long-term care insurance program works employees and self-employed persons who are currently participating in the program would be able to opt out at any time a person who opts out would not contribute premiums to

the program and would not be able would not be eligible for the 36 um ,500 benefit initiative 2124 would also require that employees or self-employed persons in Washington elect to keep coverage under the program this measure does not specify the timing or process for employees or self-employed persons to either elect to keep coverage or to opt out of the program initiative 2124 would give the Employment Security Department authority to adopt rules to implement the measures requirements initiative 2124 would also repeal the statute that created a voluntary exemption for employees who had purchased long-term care insurance before November of 2021 I'll turn it back to you president Hamil committee further remarks questions or motions uh council member list and Anderson um first I'd just like to State I didn't need verify the oath of office has nothing to do with impartiality is to uphold the laws and Constitution Washington State and to fully discharge the duties and obligations of office those duties and obligations are outlined in the state Charter nothing in there says we need to be impartial we're not judges we're legislators so it's a different obligation on us um I'm now a little bit embarrassed to say that I will be abstaining on this action I don't think I fully understand what it does it seems like it's one of these double negative things um I will need to be educated before I passed my own vote at this point in time I I just Healthcare always confuses me and um like I

said I'm embarrassed to say I do not think I could make an informed vote on thison thank you um I've done a deep dive because this uh directly uh impacts my household and could have benefited years ago if this was in place um so I'm a state employee and it's kind of known that um we don't necessarily get cost of living raises that keep pace and so last year when this got implemented my um medical insurance also doubled and so I basically my take home um from my job that has been a career job for 28 years um I saw a substantial decrease in my monthly pay um which is not always uncommon we get a raise and then things increase and we end up going behind and so when I really looked at what was coming out there wasn't a lot of money coming out but when I researched um this uh I'll call it a benefit tax um I'm going to be retiring a couple years so I'm not going to be fully vested in that I'm going to substantially benefit um by contribution um I'll get more than I contribute but I'm not going to get the maximum amount um if I was to work 10 or 20 years um my mother-in-law was in a nursing home for seven years and thank goodness um they had property were're able to sell we were able to liquidate all of their Investments her cost was $80,000 a year um sometimes 90 because she was Private pay and it was because what the state paid for those who are on Medicare was not enough to cover the cost so when I talked to Administration why was Mom paying 30,000 more a year was because the

state only paid so much for care so I look at this as you know if I voted no then it's my self-interest but sometimes you have to think on a greater interest of the community much like I don't have children in school but I still support our school bonds because it's an investment in the future and I see this as as Our Generations are aging um statistically how much money those who are between 40 and 60 have put away for retirement is not going to cover one or two months of care it just won't they don't have the money and it will bankrupt the state um in about 20 30 years um if everybody needs long-term care um that's just the direction we're going so even though I am being um I I pay this fee and I know I'm not going to get that much out of it I am still supporting the fee to stay in place because I look at it as an investment into the future of other Generations who may not have a house they could sell for their care um I always joke with my daughter that my house will actually probably be sold and pay for my nursing home cost for just probably three years at the rate of what it's going to cost for long-term care but at least we have something to help bridge that I know it's a long you know and again we're not always impartial we use our life experience to make decisions on how we vote and what we support but you know this impacts me and my household Finance paying for this I know I'm not going to get the full benefit because I'll be retiring here shortly but my thought is

looking at the younger council members sitting at the dis and their children is the hope that someday if they need long-term care or a spouse needs assistance and you have to leave work to be able to um have that off set so that you could be paid as a caregiver is going to be a tremendous value to households in our community and also for the state finances so um I've done the Deep dive and I think it's really important that we um really look to the Future and and yes everybody's going to be able to there may be somebody in my exact situation who says I don't want to pay this because I'm not going to benefit from it and and that's their right to make that decision looking at um you know where they stand and whether or not they want to have an extra $20 a month coming in they may need that um and then others will be like this is you know it's hard for me to save money but if I'm having this little bit of money come out and it's it's saving so that in the future should something happen and I need care or I need to provide care for my family member it is a way of um saving for those uh coming incidentals that we're all going to face as we age so anyway long story I am supporting this um so with that giving a little bit of my reasoning and thought process on it um I move approval second motion's been made and second um council member Anderson is the primary and second is council member cotton council member hman go ahead thank you uh thanks for that Lisa I appreciate um your

thought process hearing about your thought process and deciding um on this motion uh so I'm I'm an employer and so I had the pleasure of um letting my employees know that this would be something else that was coming out of their paycheck and that's never easy um when you know so many people live paycheck to paycheck um and but there are so many other things that come out of employees paychecks or that me as an employer that I pay for that um many people will never use Social Security uh unemployment insurance um those are all things that that we pay into that we may or may not use but when it comes to the greater good those are really important uh benefits that are available to us um and so I'll I'll be supporting the motion as well I think uh long long-term care is incredibly expensive and for for so many folks it's it's something that they're not they're not even necessarily uh they don't have the bandwidth available to think about retirement let alone what long-term care um cost could look like for them and in potentially decades um to come in their life so uh I I'll I'll be supporting uh I think that that it's potentially an unperfect program at this point but it is a newer program and um and there are always uh a improvements that could be made but I think that in in the long term for the greater good I I think it's a it's a good program and I'm I'm happy that our state implemented it committee further um remarks questions go ahead Council M this initi itive would um

undermine and blow up a really important public benefit like council member Huffman was saying just like Social Security or unemployment insurance and uh having seen the costs recently of um long-term care um as a city council all of these initiatives um uh we just don't have the capacity to address at the local level and so I um we have the obligation I think to inform the public about the consequences of these initiatives and um so grateful again to council member stone for bringing this forward and um urge the public to vote now okay motion's been made by council member Anderson second by council member cotton further discussion seeing none all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed abstentions got uh six with one abstain one abstention okay uh all right we'll go ahead and uh close that one and then we'll go to the next item here and we're going to take a break here just in in a moment but I just wanted to provide this um information for the public um our next item is a budget work session we'll be discussing the 2025 uh budget proposals for information technology Services Department legal department Human Resources Department finance department and mayor's office that's a quite a bit all right and then we're going to be um holding that meeting in the mayor's boardroom this meeting is open to the public and you're more than welcome to attend with that we'll be in recess until 11:25 [Music] what problem is [Music] like [Music] thank you you said information

technology is going to start yeah all right go go all right um just going to do a quick overview and then if there's any time for questions so just going through this uh We've Frozen two positions our chief information security officer and the split of our database administrator and PM um for budgetary purposes um our even with that you will note that our operating budget did increase significantly portion of that is the increases in software maintenances and Hardware replacement costs 6 to 24% and also moving the HR and finance department's business analyst to the to the uh technology funds in terms of funding being that they are supporting the entire city we've implemented a larger Citywide training we have a LinkedIn learning contract now and we're doing uh targeted Microsoft 365 one drive training on-based training for document management and GIS training for All City staff as a as a new program uh direct program we're removing a part-time Network consultant position out of the budget and we will be doing a Mission Essentials uh study based on our Disaster Recovery plan that we were just finishing up now in terms of our capital budget we have uh the employee management solution which is our HR payroll replacement uh for for our HR department that is a significant project being managed by the city it Department continuing our Network infrastructure Replacements um uh building on some Legacy Replacements we had some Legacy uh infrastructure out there that we are replacing

we're almost complete with that Legacy upgrade and then a phone system replac our myel system is near end of life and we will be replacing that system over the next two to three years starting in 2025 in terms of our achievements um I listed some I I I kept this to a one pager taking Force notes literal but I do want to mention a a few things that are not on this list just to give perspective in terms of our achievements uh 75 to 85% of its's time is spent on Operational Support so a lot of The Flossy stuff is not there but I just want to mention some of those what some of those things are we have over 1300 user accounts to manage over 900 computers 372 desktops 559 laptops over 700 mobile devices between iPhones and iPads and mobile routers 129 supported applications of which 34 of them are Enterprise um over 200 servers um with over 300 terabytes of storage with 57 terabytes of backups weekly um we have an expansive network with over 500 devices serving 32 locations uh with over 300 over 500 uh units like firewalls switches and Wi-Fi access locations um so obviously a large infrastructure in terms of our achievements we have implemented a new service desk structure for serving our our staff and this is in response of between 475 and 550 tickets per week um we have a new service desk center and new service desk dedicated staff for supporting our all of those staff that use our technology we have new onbase solutions for accident Hazard and leave tracking we did a major

cadmon upgrade cadmon is the dispatch systems overview for all calls it's used by our dispatch management and it's also used by all of our partner agencies and that's an in-house-built system uh we did put in a new parking management system and BTV as Hannah noted brought home several awards from the natoa uh government programming conference we renegotiated our city Verizon contract for our iPhones and iPads which will result in almost $90,000 in savings for next year and we quickly um responded to and remedied the city's impact from uh the crowd Strike Global system outage and um as all of you probably saw in the news um that impct impacted many many businesses many many governments and um all over the world and I get a little emotional about this because my team had us up and running before noon the next day Delta was down for months we had systems down all over the place my team knew about this problem within 10 minutes of it happening and we thought it was a cyber security attack for an hour and a half until we were able to figure out until we were able to identify um that um that it was the crowd strike and my team had most of our servers the the the the outage happened at 10:08 p.m.

we had um we had people come in early and we had uh 2third of those almost 900 uh desktops and laptops we had two-thirds of those fixed and up and running by 2 pm the next day it was an incredible incredible Fe for our work plan we will be implementing a new itsm system so our that's our service management system it goes along with our service test structure we're going to be it standards based um on that which gives us a a more reasonable um response approach to all of our incidents again those 500 plus incidents per week we're going to be doing a whole bunch of website improvements in coordination with our Communications Group cleaning up a whole bunch of our older content and implementing the new web accessibility guidelines on all of our outfacing systems and then working on our internal systems we're continuing the rebuild of our GIS system our GIS software has changed it they change architecture every 10 to 15 years we are about eight years behind on this one my the team is is going to do a complete rebuild of the system and Implement a hybrid solution in which our um we will be most of our systems will be hosted in the cloud but our maintenance system will be hosted internally and we will be replicating our systems and apps um between the hosted our our internal system and the cloud we'll be implementing a utility billing replacement our our Utility Billing System is is um 19 in 2027 will be end of life so we need to replace that as I mentioned we're going to be

implementing an employee management solution um with our HR department upgrading the city's bone system and then we will be continuing the expansion of our onve Solutions doing more agenda management for lot of our boards and commissions um and then targeted areas um implementing permit docs retention cementary records and many other uh Solutions based on recommendations from the city clerk's uh department and then we will be implementing a new onboarding process for Technical Training of all staff and so that will be um expanding the The Learning Management of of the the LinkedIn learning as well as integrating that with the new employee management Solution that's it excellent go ahead um so I don't have a question as much as just wanting to you know to extend a a compliment and just acknowledgement I really appreciate you sharing you know and highlighting the the team's work um I think it when we're talking about budget a lot of the times the community all the things that happen behind scenes right to keep the city running whether it's it or public works or you know every Department I think goes a lot of times unfortunately unnoticed um and but not unappreciated because we all think sometimes you know take for granted the fact that things run you know when they run smoothly and things you know are fixed quickly then everyone's you know not sort of on alert and so noting that you know those efforts having to happen at off times you know it always seems like when there's an

emergency that arises it's in the middle tonight are on the weekend and so you know the ability and willingness of staff to Really Right Step In when when needed um no matter what the time for the um to support the city is really really appreciated and a testament to the to the employees that we have in your leadership so I just want to extend that recognition Council Huffman um Williams and then Anderson also Pi up that per usual Council M Stone said exactly what I was going to say um I don't know how many times that's happened or but uh yeah you know we don't have a lot of contact with the IT department um and that's because everything is running so well and we you know so we don't um I think that just speaks to how well everybody um is doing in that department and what a great job uh the staff is doing I think wanted to you know show our appreciation um and yeah great job thank you for for all the hard work and you know this I'm sure your your Department's filled up with a lot of problem solvers so I could see that there was a lot of motivation to get that problem fixed and that was probably a pretty pretty exciting and big moment so um definitely worthy of some attention too so thank you thank you no I just wanted to compliment you two but probably out of the seven of us I'm the one that has the most [Laughter] content and uh because because I've got this laptop that does spoopy things sometimes and uh I'm sure it's the laptop anyway but but like you know speaking to your

point about the um uh crowd crowd strike system when that hit my computer I ran it down there and and your your Tech guy had that thing solved in like five minutes I mean it's like oh yeah boom it was back up and running and uh I I just want to say uh that your department is phenomenal from my perspective you you have you have accomplished a lot since you've been here and uh thank you I'm I'm just waiting to see what happens next you should asked for more um just a clarification and then there will be a question can you remind me the two frozen positions what they are chief information security officer and then the second position is us we're splitting our database administrator and project manager position currently the person doing that is filling both roles and that that second position is splitting that position into two separate positions so I guess my question is another twofold um with the Chief Information Security Officer I assume there is staff that is back filling that need especially in comments about the um security issues yeah and um as far as the SE so um my network manager fills that role we also have a security analyst and I feel a certain level of that role and thanks for the reminder I just wanted to give a few stat I forgot my statistics itics regarding information security uh we average 25 events per month we have we tend to block about 23,000 attacks per month and we have 8,000 over 8,000 vulnerabilities that were actively monitoring you could see why my

ding ding ding ding went right off when you said that um working at the community college and knowing Our IT staff really well I know how much the college well they don't share as much data but they probably don't want it to be known as well but you get stories but I guess my question is um given that you know locally we have a great Community College plug that has um you know cyber security do you take interns I know interns are a lot of work but they could also be great benefit and I'm wondering if you've kind of tapped into that um in order to give that opportunity but also just a lot of the information that you know they're accessing might be beneficial too we don't specifically do interns but one of the things that we that what we did this year is we did re uh we changed the way we do our hiring and the structure of our networks um positions so that we could hire directly from the BTC rather than as a as a path and we got a lot lot of we got a lot more interaction with the with the U with the community particularly Dam technical goge the other thing is that we have kind of we're working on a partnership particularly in them um having some of our older infrastructure for training purposes and that so we'll continue to work on that great I just highly encourage apprenticeship or internships from both BTC and wam because um some good talent coming out of it and I know that um Wacom has they look for an internship over the summer and again I know it's work to Monitor and

work with that but um there's some really good talent so not necessarily to replace PHS but just kind of augment some of the um Cutting Edge going both ways but thank you and great job because I have friends I could have family in it and I know how Cloud strike impacted them and the businesses they work with so you guys did great thanks what's my question well B Don I agree thanks for doing a great job and all your team I think it's a question for Forest I noticed the largest jump in the revenue part is charges for goods and services these are internal goods and service charges um just want to clarify we're going to see that in like many other departments budgets right they're charging other departments great are there any departments that you're seeing it more in or is it pretty kind of evenly across many departments that that that increase in Revenue to this department is going to be an expense to those departments yeah absolutely that'll be spread across all the Departments and funds of the city um you know typically the it uh allocation is by number of computers or number of Staff uh or some combination thereof so uh that is reflected across the city and and because it is that basis of computers and Personnel you shouldn't see a dramatic proportional change in any Department City decision or from year to year yeah any other Council okay um I'll just take a a quick it's already been said like multiple times thank you for the work that you and your team do um the new

service center um I walked in and I wasn't quite sure where I was at it was it's very well done and the attention NBC of service to get me online with my uh laptop and my my phone uh happened within moments so I just wanted to make sure that um that you heard that from a council another council member and again thanks for the work that fli crowd strip to to for you to outline what happened and kind of the timeline of it I think that speaks to the to the Excellence that um that the city has in terms of providing service um not just for our employees but that kind of ripples out to the broader public and broader cing so thank you for for all the work that you're doing can any further questions comments okay see thank you appreciate it currently I've got um go up next so I'll start the 2025 operating budget uh we we have three additions one is we're adding a utility funded additional attorney to the Civil Division uh that's to deal with the increased in ever increasing work uh that's coming to our office from Public Works um we're also adding a partially Grant fund uh prosecutor so that give us four prosecutors uh that would be to uh support the uh upcoming Community Court and also would allow us to um take back some of the work that we're currently Contracting out the outside Council like for example the infractions calendar mental health court and some code enforcement in landlord tenant situations um our some of our 2024 uh achievements included uh we coordinated the city's

response to the the Northwest clean air agency's notice of violation uh at post Point uh I think we've done a good job getting that under control that will continue obviously into 2025 uh we negotiated and managed the final RG Haley Cornwall and salor Landing cleanup site plans uh including the uring and some of this is still tenuous but up to uh $10 million in Grant and Loan funding for the cleanups we assisted as Council knows and continue to assist in Watershed property Acquisitions which are we continuously doing uh We've provided advice and representation the development of the uh City's Wetland mitigation Bank um we've improved in 2024 the city's part um enforcement rules and procedures and I I I believe that people have seen the difference on the streets of Bellingham we negotiated the property purchase and an Associated provider loan uh for the construction of 65 units of affordable housing at the Bellis Fair Mall we've prosecuted and this is just sort of projecting from for the last couple of months but 2200 criminal cases in municipal court and 2024 we've coordinated uh and provided legal res representation in the homeless encampment cleanups throughout the city um we negotiated the property Acquisitions and defended land use appeals to facilitate the relocation of our tiny home Villages at Civic and post Point um to our new property on Northwest Avenue uh working with Northwest Justice project we successfully settled the lawsuit aimed at shutting down the Northwest

Youth Services pad facility um we've advised Council and contined to do so on the development of additional landlord tenant regulations and finally we negotiated a development agreement for the development of the pit site in uh Fair Haven our 2025 work plan uh includes we're going to implement uh I hope I mentioned it but we're we're our budget includes that U automated man case management Discovery software in the Pro prosecutor's office we're going to implement that in 2025 that should lead to significant efficiencies currently we're we're we're handling a lot of paper both in our files and providing Discovery to defense attorneys um we're going to participate in Municipal Court's launch of its Community Court in 202 and we'll continue our support for the lead program and for mental health care we are transferring our uh public records officer responsibility Sarah Chaplan is our is the city's public records officer we are transferring her responsibilities which includes a lot of processing of public records requests uh to the clerks uh division of the finance department Sarah will continue to provide the representation and advice on public records matters and litigation but it will free her up to do other attorney functions um we'll continue to defend the city in multiple we have numerous covid-19 vaccine mandate uh lawsuits and all the other T cases that we're regularly receiving and being filed against the city we'll represent the city in Nooksack adjudication well suit

involving the city's water rights that's going to start in 2025 but should continue for literally a decade um we're also updating the city's purchasing policies and finally we will advise and represent the city on the update to its uh comprehensive plan thank you Mr come sort of a sideways question I was just looking at the claims and litigation fund which were funding and refunding keeping it a healthy level can you just remind me we do have some sort of over and above umbrella on that above our self insured for or sometimes we do sometimes be down oh we have multiple layers of insurance so I believe we're self-insured for the first I I might be Mike's not here but I think $2 million but then from we have three layers of insurance above that for in liability above our self-insured amount um that goes all the way up to uh believe $7 million and and S under the budget presswork we are facing are we going thin on our litigations and protections or are we as thick as we need to be on those protections the insurance on the insurance and also the the self-insured claims mitigation fund uh we're continuing as we have in the past so we've renewed our insurance for uh it's actually not at the end of the year but we've already in renewed our insurance for the next year uh and we're contining the fund and set aside funds for our self-insured thank you for question um I've got a couple if no one else is wantan to speak at this point um can you Ellen can you talk about the um the

proposed requirement for public defender pce loads being um minimized and they have been in the past does that affect your department at all uh well it will we've been commenting the mayor's office has been commenting uh and the comment period ends at uh the end of this month and then the Supreme Court will make a decision it will have a dramatic impact on the city's budget and and Forest could talk talk about that I manage that contract uh as it stands now and we currently spend around a million a year for our public events services and our contractor has estimated that in the whole implementation of what was proposed to the Supreme Court it could it would cost us somewhere in the vicinity of $6 million a year so dramatic increase in costs as you know it would cut the case loads by more than half so we're uh we we already submitted the city the mayor submitted comment uh to the Supreme Court and I think there's some discussion of a a countywide letter as well um I I know there are a lot of concerned cities and counties uh you know there's concerned that there not aren't even enough public defenders to actually do that work uh um so hopefully um they'll come up with a solution that's actually implementable uh in the long term so but very concerned and following in that closely for sure well just on that point I mean obviously we're in budget and so talking about the financial impact is critical but I mean concern also on those case loads right and that people are receiving

high quality representation I mean I just feel like we're at these Crossroads on multiple issues where there's not the financing available nor perhaps the Staffing to fill the needs even if we had the money um but some of those I think it just highlights the need for continued work on diversion and right other pieces as well to to focus on um yeah reducing those burdens on the on the Criminal Justice System but just expressing concern on both on all sides it's not a good situation any further questions okay I'll take another turn um so the county is applying for a grant to um uh work towards the the True Blood settlement that's that's happening so these are folks whose competency have not been restored and they're waiting a very long period of time to go to Western State hospital or any other facility uh Within um state do we have does that play into into your budget at all going into the next year um I don't think so and and for yeah I'm not aware that we're dealing with that issue okay I I think it's a pretty much a county yes issue at this point but I just wanted to to check further questions okay I'll take one more and then we can move on um the you mentioned we program your second bullet point in your work plan for 2025 um that program is subscribed to the point of about 140 clients at this point that's uh through the response division at moan County and um you know if we're we're talking about the launch of Community Court I see nothing but but an expansion of that

program potentially to to deal with uh folks that go through that therapeutic process um do we would do we have a commit Pardon Me Do we have a commitment um to help fund that program I know that we contribute to Grace um but what's our what's our uh position on lead uh we've had some preliminary discussions about the potential for additional funding for that program um but not we've not had a official ask from the county on that uh I believe that one also has some grant funding associated with it so I think we sort of waiting to see where that plays out I think we're hopeful that the grant funding continues but we know it's going to be a challenging budget session in Olympia as well so I do see it as a potential opportunity through our through our jail sales tax as a candidate for continuation and support um but yeah we don't know what the future will be yet okay one quick followup then little and then Stone so those um those doj and there's there's two other funding sources they're not forever dollars they they will expire at some point and we're making a fairly serious commitment to um for diversion through this program through the community Court mental health and wellness Court U I just want to make sure that we're poised and prepared to uh to thoroughly fund these um these programs uh in the out years I think right now we're okay but that's not in my opinion that's probably not going to be the case um you know about five years out so I'm just going to put a pin in that

one go ahead Michael yeah just follows that very closely um I forgot to ask Alan you said that the uh new prosecutor for the community court is partially Grant funded can you tell me how how much of that grant funding how long it is just how much grant funding do we have for that well the the the grant was a grant that Municipal Court obtained from the state and I think it included uh I think it's I don't know whether you know I think it's one year yeah just one year but it included funding for half of a prosecutor we're hoping to make up the rest of it just by taking back some of the contracts that we have with the outside Council doing some of the the work like mental health court and the infractions calendar so we hope to use all that to fund one entry level uh City prosecutor which would give us four but the grant is basically a startup Grant startup um well in judge L and the court coordinators presentation to council she indicated that in other communities that have received the grant it's been a continuation you reapply but that it has been continued in other locations okay try that so I know we have a new position coming on and um I've heard rumors that someone may be moving into the closet in the Council Office right the the small conference room it's not really a closet but it feels that way um and I don't know if it would fall under your budget or that would be in public works or somewhere else but I was wondering if there was any significant cost associated with

remodeling that space or making that livable for a staff member to be in there full-time we have that not yet decided yeah that would be City legal budget we have budgeted for like a workstation and furniture and stuff like that that's included in the cost of adding but uh I think we think the changes to that office space would be fairly nominal but it would be our responsibility okay any further questions okay see n thank you appreciate yes HR is okay good okay good morning um well so to start with uh for the 2025 operating budget we're requesting um four limited term staff to to support our human Capital Management implementation project these would be um temporary staff we have a a limit of two years for limited term positions and this would be to backfill existing staff while we do this implementation and our current hris system is coming to end of life um this system is uh has significant limitations associated with it and we are looking to do a significant um upgrade and replace the system with something that um provides a lot more functionality um across the city U both for our internal staff and for decision makers to provide real-time data um to support decision making so this will be a a significant um undertaking for our department but I think it's uh the results are going to be well worth uh the effort and the investment in those four limited term staff um we are requesting funding to do a market study for the local 1937 bargaining unit and that is primarily just

costs for a contractor uh who will do that um Market study we've um we're in the process of selecting somebody right now and we will be asking for increased funding for training and wellness initiatives across the city um so this is just to increase our ability to have people come in from outside the organization to conduct training for our internal staff and provide um increased uh wellness program for City staff um our 2024 achievements um we hired and onboarded 218 new employees year to date in 20 20 or 2024 um and this represents almost 19% of our Workforce including regular benefited positions seasonal staff regular non-benefited positions um so uh this is a continuing um effort that HR undertakes to to find and hire um qualified individuals to do the work of the city uh We've provided um inperson harassment prevention training for 82 supervisory staff um and harassment prevention e-learning for 700 76 non-supervisory employees uh to set clear expectations and standards about providing a respectable workplace for all city employees we negotiated and settled a two-year contract with the Guild of Pacific Norwest employees local 1937 we're working on implementing that contract right now and we reached a tentative agreement with if local 106 um we've Advanced the city's commitment to accessibility diversity equity and solution through training cultural assessments and changing internal processes and procedures we conducted the city's first Citywide AI survey and we

facilitated a department cultural assessment with the Bellingham fire department we implemented blind application rating Citywide to reduce Raider Raider bias we eliminated salary negotiation at hire uh research has demonstrated that salary salary negoti can further inequality due to bias across gender and race and to prevent negotiation bias the city has a practice of not negotiating pay placement uh we revised standards for establishing position minimum qualifications to broaden applicant pools and provide advancement opportunities for internal staff there's a movement towards uh more skills-based hiring where we um provide allowance for experience and other training to substitute for education in most positions so we're continuing to work on expanding that and for our 2025 work plan um we are going to be heavily focused on implementing that human Capital management system we expect to begin the project in Earnest in April of 2025 with a projected goli for phase one in June of 2026 which is a very aggressive implementation uh for reference our previous H system when we implemented it took four years um so we're conducting a comprehensive compensation study of positions represented by The Guild of Pacific Northwest employees this will include not only looking at compensation but a significant Outreach effort to all uh management staff and employees to gather their feedback um on their compensation and what they do in their positions to make sure that it's a valid study um we

are providing enhanced training with a focus on equipping our city leaders to move forward a culture of equity and support leadership development our ADI survey highlighted the need to provide targeted training to supervisors and managers they set the tone for each work group in the city and they have the ability to impact the employee experience more than anything else in the organization so we're going to be focusing on that in 20125 and we will also be negotiating successor collective bargaining agreements for 2025 with the police skill welcom dispatch Prospect dispatch fire Command Staff police lieutenants and professional libr Librarians and we'll begin negotiations for a 2026 CBA with local 1937 in 2025 as well thank youon then just a comment um one of the things that I'm happy to see on this uh budget is the um increased funding for training and Wellness initiatives I know that's something um that really needs to be expanded upon I'm glad to see that that is being undertaken and um supporting our employees in Wellness but also the training opportunities gives us a much better Workforce um serving the city so really glad to see that investment being made from HR so thank you for taking that on um as an employer myself Hing and onboarding employees is a huge um job uh 218 that's that's a lot of people um is that what what's what is average for the year for the city in terms of onboarding folks um and then and what do you expect to influence that over the next year as

well so I would say that this is about average over the last three years we saw a jump a rather large jump um about three years ago um and so I would say that we're on track to close out the year about at the same rate um which is like 250ish um so we're seeing a little bit of a Slowdown right now um and a lot of these you have to take into consideration that a lot of these are R&B and seasonal staff um and so there's just a natural we ramp up you know at the beginning of the summer season and then we wrap down and there we do replace a certain number of those employees every year as they choose not to come back or their you know college students um and you know a great number of these are also we're seeing a lot of people retire out of this organization a lot of institutional knowledge um is leaving the organization so we're also replacing long-term staff and I would say that that's increasing a little bit but not in a huge way yeah I have a question I really enjoy Joy I'm really s gratified to see this section about Advan training and focus on equipping leaders to move forward and culture of equity sometime during Co three four years ago I City Council Members we did an online workshop with the mayor at the time and it had to do with Equity efforts and cir the time that a lot of that had was administrative work it wasn't Council policy decisions and one thing in particular had to do with not only expecting our leaders to do work in the equity field and create that culture

but to reward them for doing so so that we promoted and and rewarded leaders for doing things right can you is that now how much have the expectations of leadership been Rewritten not only to expect this of them but to reward them for delivering on them um I wouldn't say that we gotten to the place of rewarding them with tangible rewards um I would say that we're still doing the work of um bringing people up to speed with what the expectation are right people um in our organization are in all different stages of learning um and so we're um coming at it from a perspective of meeting people where they're at and continuing to provide education um as well as um setting those clear expectations and um we have we have different departments that operate in different ways and so we have to kind of meet everyone where they're at at this point in time so I wouldn't say that we've gotten to the the point of um rewarding people other than um setting the expectation that the city has consistent goals um and um and standards in mind right whether you personally whatever your personal beliefs are um when you come to work as a city employee in a supervisory position um we have consistent standards that people have to meet have a very specific example um tell me again how many people we hired in the past year uh 28 so we set that expectation with those 218 people that's a tangible example of how we're implementing this Citywide hiring practices our job descriptions um our interview processes

all include talking about EIC MERS yeah go to the answer the next step isn't just set expectations but then as an organization start maturing to the point where we can reward when expectations are met I think the conversation about how we reward and and acknowledge employees though needs to be in alignment with all of our City's values Equity being one of them and so that's a conversation that we set as an internal goal for next year especially if we consider that we may have diminishing abilities to have the bottom number on the paycheck and we want to really focus on how are we um how do we create a culture and create employee recognition so that there's many ways for employees to feel seen and valued for the work that they do at the city every day so um I don't think it would be in isolation I think it would be something that would complement that overall review and approach ready further questions thank you for the presentation appreciate we are doing very well we comeone through three departments we've got two left the easy ones finance and so p is up next [Music] okay you have the ball you have the ball right give me the rock go ahead okay all right we'll jump right into it try to keep it brief so the 2525 operating budget uh what we're doing is moving the public disclosure compliance from the legal department the finance department Allan touched on this um previously and so we'll be adding one FTE to support that work and it's really um bringing all the records from

public records requests to public records retention and tracking all under the clerk's office so uh we're looking to implement that this year uh reduce overall Department cost by freezing two FTE so right now that is an accountant position and a contract specialist position so we still feel like all these positions are extremely valuable and important helps with succession planning and also cross training but at this point um in a cost savings manner we're going to freeze those positions now and hope to bring those back um in the future uh so 2024 achievements um continue to effectively provide financial services for ongoing day-to-day operations so including Utility Billing of about 26,000 accounts uh business tax services of about 16,000 accounts Parking Services there's about 2,000 ments and then all the receding associated with that records management accounting reporting purchasing Contracting budgeting I didn't put AP so also uh paying all the bills on there as well um also in 2024 we've updated and approved the city's financial management guidelines those all effort for a long time and appreciate all of you your input and working through that process uh maintain excellent S&P Bond rating of doua plus and issued 24 million in new Bond BS for the P Phase 2 building uh successfully completed the fiscal year 2023 financial and federal audit with no reportable issues that exit conference is scheduled for October 29th so I'm sure all of you will be receiving an invitation to

that um soon if not already uh We've also improved records management of a physical and record electronic records so really trying to move towards that electronic records management data management um uh future of of records instead of getting away from our more paper based and but also cleaning up our paper base and also thinking towards the future on how we can move towards electronic records and and scanning and and adjusting how we how we look at records and how we manage records uh We've also moved to an annual budget this year so those are all some big achievements for 2024 looking forward to 2025 we are going to look to continue to do um all those things in that first B of the 2024 achievement so continue to provide quality services to City customers and also City departments so internally and externally uh we also are looking to replace our Utility Billing System with improved customer experience and Reporting capability so our utility building system is sunsetting at the end of 2027 and we really need to move forward with uh picking a new software and implementing a new software system that hopefully provides for better customer experience as we move forward uh We've also are looking to revise records management policy so that's further moving into this electronic of records and also adjusting some of that data governance and how we manage records and how we're um going to have the oversight over that process um and then expand the city's use of digital signatures to

replace ink and paper processes so there's a lot of ongoing projects that an effort to try to get to more of those digital signatures and remove some of our paper moving paper around and all these wet signatures that we have for so many things yes um so eval and then continue to evaluate opportunities for continued um system Improvement so we have many many systems within the finance department and so we're always looking for ways we can uh update those improve processes or or change up procedures so uh that is the quick overview for uh the budget for okay okay you guys do so my philosopy don't mess with money okay I will close it out here with the mayor's office presentation and I feel like we're just following up I think today is kind of the the often unseen Heroes day so I'm really glad that these one pages are structured in a way that you can learn in little bit more about what's happening this year the work that will be happening next year um because I think we've all acknowledge that these departments do so much and it's often unseen because they do it well and so we're not in a crisis mode often and so but that also means that they don't get a chance to be seen so um I'm grateful that we're all engaged in this conversation so for the mayor's office it looks like we're having an extraordinary increase and that is because it's the Justice um um sales tax that is being rolled in and that's why the operating budget looks so significantly bigger that is the money that we're

receiving from the sales tax the voter approv tax that will support the Justice project implementation plan goals and strategies so um on the capital budget side we have a $100,000 ask to do some minor upgrades especially connected around safety so um we are looking to partition the entryway here similar to um if you go into pck or Finance there's a locking um gate and or door we're looking to have a similar um system put in place so that there is an immediate access to all of the office staff it creates another layer of control similarly we'll be putting in some uh locking and controllable access points on this room and um creating a slightly more secure environment especially because we do a lot of nighttime meetings and this room is open to the public and we don't have a great ability to secure this space so it would provide that ability um for budgeted FTE we're looking at increasing one and that will be a new strategic initiatives manager Council this year already approved his strategic initiative strategic initiatives manager for with the health and human services Focus the new one will be an equity and inclusion Focus um so um what else did I want to highlight we are freezing as the cost reductions measure a vacant climate program coordinator positions um we we are including about $815,000 of anticipated climate action Grant revenues and expenses to move climate work forward we've also will continue to build on the work that we started this year about how do we embed

our climate work in every Department throughout the city uh we are directing a million dollars towards closing the County's funding gap for the 23-hour crisis Relief Center using the city's opioid funds we are providing full funding for the alternative Response Team through that Public Safety sales tax and we are seeking to advance a public safety strategic plan this will replace that outdated 2019 plan that fire currently has and we'll be looking both more broadly for both fire and police on the revenue side how do we support our First Responders as we've all learned they are a significant part of our general fund expenses our 2024 achievements include establishing a leadership vision and beginning to lay out the framework for a one- city approach to our work priorities working to create the organizational structure directing Staffing changes and the new positions that support these priorities we are engaged in leading an inclusive and transparent budget development process and to that end one thing Council might not be aware of but we conducted two budget work sessions for staff um we covered so it was available for different shifts and we had no idea what to expect but we had more than 225 employees participate in those so we had nearly one in four city employees dialing in and asking really excellent questions about the city's budget and availed themselves to that opportunity so it was a great um example of bringing them in and listening to their concerns and questions as

we go through this process we've um in partnership with some of the council members here today helping to reinvigorate the city state governmental relation efforts so we've established an internal lobbying team and we've gone through the process of hiring a new lobbyist to serve as a key partner we've LED conversations to advance Equitable approaches to making the city of Bellingham a top employer in Waton County that market survey um is a continued reflection that we want to do for 1937 we C some strategic conversations about supporting leave and particularly around baby bonding and so we're continuing to reassess our approaches to make this a great place to work for the people who come to work for us uh I've issued an ex itive order around the fenal crisis in downtown Bellingham and what's built upon that is the downtown forward initiative um which focuses our actions to make downtown safer and more vibrant We are continuing our city-wide emphasis on Equity inclusion um I personally have had significant participation in helping to launch the bom racial Equity commission where it says selia's report a placeholder I did have um we hired an intern this summer and so she had a short-term project and that was serving um all of the city employees and departments that have regular engagement with our tribal partners and so we kind of did that Baseline analysis of understanding how does the city um and in what ways are we working alongside lumium noac and her initial assessments

for how can we do that work better um we know we will likely want to have a tribal Leon position at some point but until we get there there are things we can put into place today to do our work better alongside our tribal Partners so she um I'm excited I think maybe at the end of this week that'll be incoming or next week and I look forward to presenting that and sharing it up to council I think there's some key learnings for all of you to uh and we continue to make progress advancing language access we've established an internal encampment team so we can coordinate Citywide actions um with both public and private partners and to develop comprehensive and the compassionate actions that we need to address in current camp locations and also with a focus on presenting new ones and so for 2025 we will continue meeting the public safety strategic we're leading the development of additional strategies to put the city on stronger financial position in the coming years so our budget work will not end this year we'll be continuing that work actively uh I will continue to lead hiring new strategic departmental leadership we have uh two department heads that we are going to be doing Nationwide searches for shortly and we have a few other department heads that have indicated retirement on the horizon we'll continue to expand investments in our government to government relations we will continue to expand and build upon the one city approach throughout all levels of the organization

excited for that increasing overall coordination and effectiveness of our health and human services responses through that new strategic initiatives manager who starts this week so exciting uh continuing our emphas on equity and inclusion bringing in new resources to the mayor's office to support this work moving forward on priority climate actions uh identifying funding for other needs for priority facility Replacements primarily the municipal courts um and the itsd building leading efforts to support and enhance employee and Public Safety at all City fa facilities this has been an ongoing conversation throughout this entire year um it's something that HR our facilities teams um employee labor representatives were all engaged in this conversation right now we will uh the mayor's office is committed to leing the keep Washington Working a court group um to have a shared understanding of the city's compliance with this series of State actions we need to hold ourselves accountable to and leading Citywide Communications and Community engagement so I will continue to have a focus on how we go about doing that thanks man yeah so one of the questions I had was just with respect to Staffing and I don't know directly if it falls into the mayor's office or somewhere else but thank you about the front lobby the main lobby in City Hall in that space has any consideration been given to I don't know what that would cost as far as budgeting for Staffing or handling that internally so our

budget does include I don't where do those positions did they get into public works yes and Facilities yeah yeah well so we are creating a new uh security think it's going to be a security supervisor position uh that will be in the facilities part division of Public Works and then we're going to transfer all the uh there'll be more to come on this but we're going to transfer all the um security information attendants that work at the library into that group and so it'll be more of a central Service uh for that security with a a leader who has experience in that type of work um and then they will provide security services for both the library and City Hall can't say that some we be sitting down there all the time but we'll be evaluating how to how to make that structured and work smoothly for everything so Public Works yes I'll put a pin in that thanks Michael go yeah just um on cio's report I'm in the webinar this Thursday I think it is you say you weren't quite ready to share that report can I get a peek at some of it we haven't received it you haven't received it either no oh can get Thursday okay well thank you anyway any further questions remarks just a comment I'm really happy to see the capital budget that um security measures for this area um it always makes me feel a little uncomfortable that we don't have blocks on these doors if we ever had to evacuate or come back into this area um it's something that we dealt with at my other job um just being able to lock spaces

but also um fully agree with the need of uh creating kind of a a system to be able to access back areas especially when some of our staff here at at nighttime so um glad you're you're looking at that and I also look forward to um more enhanced security discussions um for this building in the future I'm sure they're coming ready questions um I'll have a go um so I just want to compl the mayor on the on the work and the commitment to um diversion and Behavioral Health uh treatment I think this is hugely important we are definitely going going in that direction very thankful for the um the funding of the alternate Response Team um that is the crisis team that we have so different from Grace different from lead but it's a a very important um program that help people when they're they're in crisis in our community so thank you for that this is a very ambitious body of work and I keep looking at the um the number behind me 271 days in that's correct right uh I believe it's pretty close to correct but I just want to compliment the mayor for your leadership and um um and just bringing the city to a state of Excellence is a um is not easy it's a a challenge we've got a a large organization and we are growing a community so thank you for the work that you've been doing and looking forward to more of it yeah further comments remarks okay um well that was quick um it's 1227 speed to um five departments in one hour so thank you and speing is now